Curse

death_hawk · May 05, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I love how everyone bashes IWAY for one reason or another. I have to admit, I was on the IWAY side of the fence for a while.
For those who doubt the power of it, I was on a few months ago (before the advent of Martyr trapper) with an unranked IWAY team that I was leading. We managed to get about 6 consecutive when we hit FoSa. Oh crap. Long story short, we some how managed to flawless them.

Anyway.... thanks for the hints so far. I've been on the IWAY side of the fence for far too long.
In all the times I took playing IWAY, I never really sat back fully and read up on what beat me.
I'm tempted to switch over to get some real HoH in.
Thank you.

Draygo Korvan · May 05, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

The E/Mo warder (melee+foes and 2 +20% chance of half recharge items) with Heal Party goes a long way to defeating Iway.

art_ · May 05, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by death_hawk

I love how everyone bashes IWAY for one reason or another. I have to admit, I was on the IWAY side of the fence for a while.
For those who doubt the power of it, I was on a few months ago (before the advent of Martyr trapper) with an unranked IWAY team that I was leading. We managed to get about 6 consecutive when we hit FoSa. Oh crap. Long story short, we some how managed to flawless them.

Anyway.... thanks for the hints so far. I've been on the IWAY side of the fence for far too long.
In all the times I took playing IWAY, I never really sat back fully and read up on what beat me.
I'm tempted to switch over to get some real HoH in.
Thank you.

where is the iway bashing in this thread? oO

Divineshadows · May 05, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon Shadowking

So far so good. I'm getting some good stuff. I think I'm going to try to get a pure IWAY hate team together (because SS pwns the Zaishen too), and totally nerf IWAY teams I go up against!

That would be awesome.

Let's keep up finding good anti-IWAY strategies and posting them here!

When you start to putting things like SS into your build so that you can have an easier time with IWAY you've just remade your build into an anti-IWAY team and will get hammered by spike and balanced teams.

MrFarmer · May 06, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Ive been reading about this IWAY here for some days now, but one thing is clear to me.

when browsing through these forums i found that there are deffo more haters then lovers of IWAY, and now seen many ways to beat them.

How ever when you get to the PvP part of the game as an PvE player it looks as an total must to go IWAY, why? when looking in these forums here the only post that had stuff in about builds i could understand whas about IWAY builds, and even worse in-game, instead of people helping you setting up a decent build to play they spam the chat with i dont know what of abusive stuff, srry i whasnt born PvP leet and have to learn it. in 4 hours time there whas 1 person willing to sort me out, but his chat got overruled by some spammer who liked the word noob alot, is it that hard to tell someone what skills he need, what weapon to use and where to set his att points on?
has the PvP part of the game always been this F***** up?

ow and before we start flaming or what so ever i did use the search button

Farmer

Solberg the Exiled · May 06, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

As far as Iway goes, I love it about as much as I love eoe and Blood spike, and balenced and any other build for that matter. It's just a build, it has it's advantages and disadvantages, its strength and weaknesses just like every other build.

As far as the elitism in Ascent goes, it's pretty bad and going in there by yourself as a PvE person with no rank is pretty scary. But that's really what guilds are for. Get you guild to teach you about the build and the numerous other things that's important in PvP.

Most people in ascent is there to win and not there to teach new players. (Not that I support the elitism there, in fact I think it's down right disgusting how elitism some people can be) teaching a new player to pvp is a lot of hard work and will take days if not weeks. Hell I had been trying to teach one of my friend how to pvp and it took me 4 hours and many games later to convince him that in PvP, you should not take restore life and Peace and Harmony, and that if you want to take a res, it's better to use res sig.

anyway, back on topic. IWAY is just another build, and there exist as much ways to defeat it as there is to eoe bombing and ranger spike and what not. If you have a well coordinated team of experience pvp players, it's not hard to win against iway (or other inexperienced or not well coordinated tame ofr that matter)

Oberon Shadowking · May 07, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

When you start to putting things like SS into your build so that you can have an easier time with IWAY you've just remade your build into an anti-IWAY team and will get hammered by spike and balanced teams.

This is totally true. However, the fact is that I don't want necessarily to destroy anything other than IWAY. I'm just sick of losing to it, and I want to soundly defeat IWAY teams. I know strategies for beating balanced teams, but anyway.

MCS · May 07, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

I'm confused.... People lose to IWAY? The only thing IWAY beats is ranger spike and other IWAY.... It turns out having nearly no healing gets you owned.

Red Locust · May 07, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

If IWAY didn't beat people, people wouldn't be running it 24/7 in HA. There's a lot of new people out there that get beat by it, mostly because they don't know how to kite. You kite those bastards and they can't do much about it.

art_ · May 07, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Lets Make this simple:

1) Kill teh spirits (without overextending) - edge staying up = lose.
2) Shutdown the taint
3) Don't let the trapper trap offensively
4)Do Not Ever Overextend
5) Focus on killing one guy repeatedly so they waste their rez sigs
6) consume corpse spam plx
7) Kite within wards, or if no wards just kite anyway, get a seed and they will lose interest
8) Don't let them kill your ghost for rez sigs. Bring him with you (he does decent damage these days)

d3kst3r · May 07, 2006, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Way I always beat IWAY is we spike their targets off immediately since they have very limited healing capability at the start. The rest is a clean up job.

Terra Xin · May 07, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Question! Mesmers have that Unnatural signet skill.

Would that be more effective in dealing damage to spirits than a warrior would?

Conan The Castrater · May 07, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

When you start to putting things like SS into your build so that you can have an easier time with IWAY you've just remade your build into an anti-IWAY team and will get hammered by spike and balanced teams.

Exactly how is taking an SS necro an open invitation for balanced teams and spikers to beat you? 1 elite makes a whole build useless?

He is most likely running a malaise+para spam alongside this which can be pretty evil over the long run against any 3 monk backline as well as shutting down offence. SS works just as good on the warrior in a balanced as long as there are enough hexes flying around, effectively shutting down most teams main damage source. In fact the SS build is a staple balance build, a spot normally interchanged between a second warrior, fire ele, and others.

And apart from lack of interrupts, exactly how is bringing an SS necro hurting you against spikes? If your running an SS you will most likely have 2 mesmers anyway, do you really need a 3rd interrupter that bad? Or do you want a 2nd infuser that the SS is taking up the spot of? What exactly is your point? There are other characters that are designed for working against spikes already in most SS builds.

The Real Roy Keane · May 07, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

I'm confused.... People lose to IWAY? The only thing IWAY beats is ranger spike and other IWAY.... It turns out having nearly no healing gets you owned.

Because of this kind of attitude, MATH win the halls every day and IWAY dances all over unranked groups who actually believe the people shouting about how it's a pushover.

nomercy · May 07, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

when i see people who say "iway is free fame", "i dont get beat by any iway teams", "iway noobs", "iway doesnt require skills" got beat (whether flawlessly, through eoe, or luck), it makes me laugh too.

What's more fun is what happened to me a few days ago,

A Balanced group noticed my team was IWAY (what do you expect with a leader with the word IWAY in his name :P) and they were like, get a build noobs! IGAY! etc. and in the end, the Balanced got beaten easily. Priceless

Evilsod · May 07, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Thats becuase IWAY is for every other noob who can make a W/R. At least when MATH does it they do it well and don't just jump on the 'yay lets kill a few groups, get some fame, fail and repeat' bandwagon. Thats the sort of IWAY that piss me off.

Solberg the Exiled · May 07, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Because of this kind of attitude, MATH win the halls every day and IWAY dances all over unranked groups who actually believe the people shouting about how it's a pushover.

So true, I see so many people who just bash at people that plays IWAY and then get beaten through eoe.

In fact, it you do want to learn how to beat IWAY more consistently, I would suggest that you go play IWAY. Yes, go play iway yourself, as an order, tainted, warrior, and trapper. This way, you can learn the build much more clearly and understand it's weaknesses. I think if people actually bothered to play IWAY instead of just sitting around and bashing it, they'll have a much clear understanding of how it works.

Divineshadows · May 07, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFarmer

How ever when you get to the PvP part of the game as an PvE player it looks as an total must to go IWAY, why? when looking in these forums here the only post that had stuff in about builds i could understand whas about IWAY builds, and even worse in-game, instead of people helping you setting up a decent build to play they spam the chat with i dont know what of abusive stuff, srry i whasnt born PvP leet and have to learn it. in 4 hours time there whas 1 person willing to sort me out, but his chat got overruled by some spammer who liked the word noob alot, is it that hard to tell someone what skills he need, what weapon to use and where to set his att points on?
has the PvP part of the game always been this F***** up?

Total must to go IWAY? You must be kidding, right? There is absolutely no reason to begin your PvP experience in HA (in fact I think this would actually give you several bad habits for every other form of PvP).

Get familiar with success in TA, use this as a contact point to meet different guilds, and join a guild that does some HA (if you are stuck in a PvE guild you should consider leaving it if you are serious about playing PvP). Once in said guild be part of their HA teams running spike, balanced, degen, whatever (heck even a guild IWAY using voice comms is far superior to PUG IWAY assuming the guild knows how to play IWAY right).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan The Castrator

Exactly how is taking an SS necro an open invitation for balanced teams and spikers to beat you? 1 elite makes a whole build useless?

He is most likely running a malaise+para spam alongside this which can be pretty evil over the long run against any 3 monk backline as well as shutting down offence. SS works just as good on the warrior in a balanced as long as there are enough hexes flying around, effectively shutting down most teams main damage source. In fact the SS build is a staple balance build, a spot normally interchanged between a second warrior, fire ele, and others.

And apart from lack of interrupts, exactly how is bringing an SS necro hurting you against spikes? If your running an SS you will most likely have 2 mesmers anyway, do you really need a 3rd interrupter that bad? Or do you want a 2nd infuser that the SS is taking up the spot of? What exactly is your point? There are other characters that are designed for working against spikes already in most SS builds.

Looks like I needed to elaborate on my statement. You cannot just throw spiteful spirit into a build and have it work. IWAY is extremely light on hex removal (do they even run any?) so hexes are powerful against IWAY. Let's say you have 2 warriors, 2 surge/burn dom mesmers, 3 monk backline. Tossing in a SS guy is not going to do anything against a balanced team, because that alone is not going to overpower any balanced team's hex removal. So basically you are fighting 7v8. My point is that some thought is required before placing an SS guy into your build and will very likely require the addition of more hexes into your build to make him actually useful.

Malaise does absolutely nothing to monks except provide a minor annoyance. F2->F1->F2. gg. Or would you just be counting on the monk players on the opposing team to be complete idiots?

A SS necro could actually go /Me secondary and get some spike disruption with power drain and get some nice energy management. Still nowhere as disruptive against spikes as several different characters that could be in his place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon Shadowking

This is totally true. However, the fact is that I don't want necessarily to destroy anything other than IWAY. I'm just sick of losing to it, and I want to soundly defeat IWAY teams. I know strategies for beating balanced teams, but anyway.

If you are playing on a team with several (or maybe even just one) players that do not know how to kite, then you are still going to have problems against IWAY. SS is not going to help with this especially if the IWAY team knows how to deal with SS (don't attack if it is on you and get away from the pet that has SS on it). Having SS (or any particular skill in your team's bar) is not going to miraculously defeat every IWAY team you come across.

art_ · May 08, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solberg the Exiled

So true, I see so many people who just bash at people that plays IWAY and then get beaten through eoe.

In fact, it you do want to learn how to beat IWAY more consistently, I would suggest that you go play IWAY. Yes, go play iway yourself, as an order, tainted, warrior, and trapper. This way, you can learn the build much more clearly and understand it's weaknesses. I think if people actually bothered to play IWAY instead of just sitting around and bashing it, they'll have a much clear understanding of how it works.

qft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

Lets Make this simple:

1) Kill teh spirits (without overextending) - edge staying up = lose.
2) Shutdown the taint
3) Don't let the trapper trap offensively
4)Do Not Ever Overextend
5) Focus on killing one guy repeatedly so they waste their rez sigs
6) consume corpse spam plx
7) Kite within wards, or if no wards just kite anyway, get a seed and they will lose interest
8) Don't let them kill your ghost for rez sigs. Bring him with you (he does decent damage these days)

Having said all this, against some of the IWAY mods im seeing atm its pretty challenging to beat some of the better ones. For example today i protted vs two IWAYs on scarred earth, one with guys from MATH, and one was 'Legendary Danny's team.' They were clearly not 'nubs running around like retards' (timeless quote) but they were pretty organised in what they were doing. However, no matter how well-practised they if you know exactly what IWAY is running, and how they play, you know how to beat it. *

Unfortunately IWAY uses some of the most powerful skill combinations in the game and repeated use has taught them exactly how to protect these powerful principles.
Unlike a lot of groups they face, they understand the power of EoE, the most broken skill unfixed from the prophecies campaign. If you dont kill this spirit, killing IWAY too efficiently will make you lose vs experienced IWAY players. You may have 2 monks with heal party, but both of those are under enormous pressure and are easily interrupted by the aoe distracting blow. Meanwhile their necro can spam hp thanks to soul reaping, and is extremely unlikely to have any warrior in its face considering the big danger of overextending against IWAY.

NR is a bitch, but is not quite the same level of a problem unless you are running a bonder. I'm not gonna say why NR isn't so dangerous because I don't want IWAY to get ideas -.-

*Ya, we lost to the second one. Our CC spammer missed one or two consumes, with edge just gone up, so GG.

Zui · May 08, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

IWAY is extremely light on hex removal (do they even run any?)

The good ones usualy don't. I've seen 1 r3+ IWAY with the resolve trapper running inspired hex, that's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

would you just be counting on the monk players on the opposing team to be complete idiots?

This is HA. If you can consitently see r6+ players running around in full wyvren, ascalon, and platemail armor(which you certainly can), why would the average monk swap down to their - energy set to end malaise early? Better yet, why would they even have a - energy set to begin with?